{"id":250,"date":"2009-08-31T14:48:11","date_gmt":"2009-08-31T18:48:11","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/businessconflictmanagement.com\/blog\/?p=250"},"modified":"2009-08-31T14:48:11","modified_gmt":"2009-08-31T18:48:11","slug":"the-secretary-and-the-professor","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/www.businessconflictmanagement.com\/blog\/2009\/08\/the-secretary-and-the-professor\/","title":{"rendered":"The Secretary and the Professor"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>(<em>Scene:\u00a0 White Horse Tavern, Hudson Street and 11<sup>th<\/sup> Avenue in the Village in New York City.\u00a0 Roger Fisher is having a beer with Alexander Hamilton, who is nursing a brandy.<\/em>)<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Roger Fisher<\/strong>:\u00a0 Hamilton, I\u2019ve been thinking\u2026.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Alexander Hamilton<\/strong>:\u00a0 That does not surprise me.\u00a0 You are after all a Professor.\u00a0<!--more--><\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Fisher<\/strong>:\u00a0 \u2026about this theme in your book, the <em>Federalist Papers<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Hamilton<\/strong>: (<em>Delighted<\/em>) You\u2019ve read my book?<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Fisher<\/strong>:\u00a0 Of course I have.\u00a0 And in <a href=\"http:\/\/www.constitution.org\/fed\/federa10.htm\" target=\"_self\">Federalist 10<\/a>, this discussion you do of \u201cfaction,\u201d there is an idea that I find uniquely American and that goes right to the core of my own work.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Hamilton<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong> (<em>Wary<\/em>) Yes?<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Fisher<\/strong>:\u00a0 Your write that factions, groups of conflicting interests, are a danger to self-government\u2026.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Hamilton<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong> (<em>Even more wary<\/em>) Well, that was Madison actually\u2026.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Fisher<\/strong>: (<em>Oblivious<\/em>) And you concede that it is impossible that every citizen would have the same interests\u2026<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Hamilton<\/strong>: \u2026while it is also unacceptable to deny them the liberty to pursue their factional interests, yes\u2026<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Fisher<\/strong>:\u00a0 So, you say, the cure is to embrace the process itself \u2013 the dual forum of the state and the federal legislatures \u2013 and ensure that every faction, whether in the majority or the minority, shares an overarching interest in preserving the process itself.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Hamilton<\/strong>: (<em>Eyeing his brandy<\/em>)\u00a0 Right.\u00a0 As I say, Madison was actually the one who wrote that\u2026.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Fisher<\/strong>:\u00a0 Well, this is just great!\u00a0 (<em>Slaps Hamilton on the back with hearty good will<\/em>.)\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Hamilton<\/strong>: (<em>Wincing<\/em>) You liked it?<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Fisher<\/strong>:\u00a0 Boy do I ever!!<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Hamilton<\/strong>:\u00a0 (<em>Blushing modestly)<\/em> Well, I must say I did coach Madison quite a bit on that part\u2026.<strong><\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Fisher<\/strong>:\u00a0 This is the same process that I wrote about in <em><a href=\"http:\/\/www.cozy.org\/yes.html\" target=\"_self\">Getting to Yes<\/a><\/em>!\u00a0 Don\u2019t you see the connection?\u00a0 It\u2019s a process of identifying and then enlarging the shared interests of the disputing parties, yes?<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Hamilton<\/strong>: You could put it that way I suppose.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Fisher<\/strong>:\u00a0 It\u2019s so interesting to me that America gave rise to both the concept of republican democracy and the theory of\u00a0interest-based conflict management!<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Hamilton<\/strong>:\u00a0 (<em>Lost<\/em>) I beg your pardon?<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Fisher<\/strong>:\u00a0 Well, America, in large part through <em>you<\/em>, was the great experiment of the Enlightenment, having faith in self-determination and adopting a system that allows public decisions to be made as the result of expressed disputes among representatives of self interested factions\u2026<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Hamilton<\/strong>:\u00a0 I believe you will find that Rome made some slight contribution, but\u2026.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Fisher<\/strong>:\u00a0 And in my book, I proposed that the process of expressing underlying interests could yield a zone of possible agreement that the mere assertion of conflicting positions would not.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Hamilton<\/strong>:\u00a0 Your book, again\u2026 (<em>Lost<\/em>)<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Fisher<\/strong>:\u00a0 <em>Getting to Yes<\/em>.\u00a0 It\u2019s a classic.\u00a0 (<em>Pause<\/em>)\u00a0 You haven\u2019t read it, have you?<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Hamilton<\/strong>: (<em>Uncomfortable<\/em>) I have not had the pleasure.\u00a0 (<em>Hastily<\/em>) \u00a0Yet.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Fisher<\/strong>:\u00a0 Well there is a remarkable resonance between your thought and mine.\u00a0 Really remarkable.\u00a0 We are both saying, I suppose, that with a modicum of skill, and the application of a few principles, people can indeed govern their own affairs, even though they may seem to directly conflict.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Hamilton<\/strong>:\u00a0 What principles are these?<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Fisher<\/strong>:\u00a0 Well, as I said, the first one is to emphasize one\u2019s interests, and not just take argumentative positions all the time.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Hamilton<\/strong>.\u00a0 Yes, that makes sense.\u00a0 Gets to the nub of it, not just the wrappings.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Fisher<\/strong>:\u00a0 Right!\u00a0 <em>Phrasemaker!!<\/em> The second is to generate options that will benefit both parties.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Hamilton<\/strong>:\u00a0 I like that idea.\u00a0 I like it very much.\u00a0 Have you read, by the way, Madison\u2019s minutes of the convention on\u00a0June 18\u00a0when I introduced the \u201c<a href=\"http:\/\/teachingamericanhistory.org\/convention\/debates\/0618.html\" target=\"_self\">Hamilton Plan<\/a>\u201d?\u00a0 Now there was a piece of work!\u00a0 I was proposing\u2026.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Fisher<\/strong>:\u00a0 The third is to use objective criteria to assess the value of suggested offers\u2026.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Hamilton<\/strong>:\u00a0Yes, I\u2019m sure that\u2019s\u2026.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Fisher<\/strong>:\u00a0 And the fourth is to separate the people from the problem.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Hamilton<\/strong>: (<em>Takes a beat<\/em>)\u00a0 I\u2019m afraid you\u2019ve lost me there.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Fisher<\/strong>:\u00a0 Keep your eye on the problem being discussed, don\u2019t be distracted by the irritation you may\u00a0develop with the person propounding it.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Hamilton<\/strong>: (<em>Long pause<\/em>)\u00a0 I think not.\u00a0 The distinction is unclear to me.\u00a0 For example, take <a href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Aaron_Burr\" target=\"_self\">Col. Burr<\/a>.\u00a0 Col. Burr <em>is<\/em> the problem.\u00a0 In his own right.\u00a0 He is not merely irritating; his very existence is the issue that needs to be corrected.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Fisher<\/strong>: (<em>Slapping him on the back<\/em>) I like that!\u00a0 I like it!<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Hamilton<\/strong>: (<em>Extricating himself politely<\/em>) My dear Professor, I once made a bet with <a href=\"http:\/\/bioguide.congress.gov\/scripts\/biodisplay.pl?index=M000976\" target=\"_self\">Gouverneur Morris<\/a>: Dinner and wine for the company if he would dare to slap George Washington on the back.\u00a0 He did so, but though I paid for dinner,\u00a0Morris lost more than I.\u00a0 \u201cWashington just looked at me,\u201d he kept muttering \u201cHe just\u2026 looked at me!\u201d\u00a0 (<em>Laughing at the memory<\/em>)<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Fisher<\/strong>:\u00a0 Huh.\u00a0 Whaddya know?<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Hamilton<\/strong>:\u00a0 (<em>Fixing Fisher steadily with beady eye<\/em>) Washington was not an informal man.<strong><\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Fisher<\/strong>:\u00a0 Oh.\u00a0 (<em>Getting up to go to the bar<\/em>)\u00a0 Beer?<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<strong>Hamilton<\/strong>: Brandy. (<em>Under his breath<\/em>)\u00a0 Thank you.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Roger Fisher and Alexander Hamilton meet in a Greenwich Village bar.  Fisher is buying.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[11,24],"tags":[10,12,23],"class_list":["post-250","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-conflict-resolution","category-systems-design","tag-conflict-management","tag-culture","tag-systems-design"],"aioseo_notices":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.businessconflictmanagement.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/250","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.businessconflictmanagement.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.businessconflictmanagement.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.businessconflictmanagement.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/3"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.businessconflictmanagement.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=250"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"http:\/\/www.businessconflictmanagement.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/250\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.businessconflictmanagement.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=250"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.businessconflictmanagement.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=250"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.businessconflictmanagement.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=250"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}